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Old 01-17-2010, 06:29 AM   #61
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It's worth it. You wield golden death.

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Old 01-17-2010, 07:12 AM   #62
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Maybe I'll go back to Majora's Mask and finally watch that Game Over cut scene that I've been too scared to see for the past ten years...

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Old 01-17-2010, 03:42 PM   #63
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It always gave me a sense of failure when I saw it, and of coarse it ends with the Happy Mask Salesman just making things even stranger....

Anyway, my top 5 Zelda rankings
1. Wind Waker
2. Majora's Mask
3. Ocarina of Time (only an inch away from 2nd)
4. A Link to the Past
5. Link's Awakening

I got Twilight Princess for Xmas but I haven't played enough of it to fairly rank it

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Old 01-18-2010, 01:09 AM   #64
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I never once Game Over'd in Majora's Mask. I was too afraid of it happening to let myself get close enough. I've seen the clip though. Depressing

Oh, so now we're ranking Zeldas. This should be interesting...

1. Ocarina of Time
2. A Link to the Past
3. Link's Awakening
4. Majora's Mask
5. The Adventure of Link

OK now I'm sure I've just raised a few certain peoples' eyebrows there. Let me explain: while I agree that MM is certainly superior to OoT, I don't necessarily like it more. I most definitely have an emotional bias towards Ocarina, it having been my first game of that console generation -- and not to mention one of the biggest leaps in any video game franchise ever. I simply could never reward Best Zelda Game Ever to a game that uses the same exact graphics and engine as its predecessor, while the latter was built from the ground-up and was -- and shall remain -- one of the most groundbreaking games ever made. Even though MM improved upon OoT in many ways, OoT retains its own very special place in my heart never to be filled by another Zelda no matter how great. I agree that it's my own personal bias, but then again it's my list and my opinion too

Which explains why Twilight Princess didn't make the list. It probably would have been #6. Being essentially a rehash of Ocarina of Time with (much, much) better graphics, cinematics, and art direction don't necessarily make TP "better". It's still one of the best Gamecube titles ever made, and certainly the best Zelda game for that system. And yes, it is a Gamecube game, not a Wii game.

Worst Zelda game? Apart from the CD-I ones, it's probably Four Swords Adventures, if it even counts.

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Old 01-18-2010, 01:34 AM   #65
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I thought I was the only person who deliberately chose not to watch the Game Over screen in Majora's Mask. I think I told the story before on this forum, but I didn't watch it until around 2006 or so in college during a replay.

Everyone who hasn't seen it should go watch it. And watch it in the game, not on YouTube. The effect is so much better after you sit through the final six hours of Day 3. It really puts you in a morbid mood watching that clock tick down. It's one of the the only moments in video games that legitimately gave me chills when I first saw it... The only other one I can think of is that "But the world refused to change" ending of Chrono Trigger. Of course, playing games in the middle of the night in the dark will do that. The fact that they recall back to the Happy Mask Salesman line in Majora's Mask really seals the deal in that one.

Anyway,

1. Majora's Mask
2. A Link to the Past
3. The Ocarina of Time
4. The Wind Waker
5. Link's Awakening

If I would've made this list 3-4 years ago, The Wind Waker would've never made the list. While I still think the game is flawed and incomplete in some ways, I give it credit for the new direction it took the series. I like to bitch and moan about how little Zelda seems to evolve and always plays it safe, but then I complain when they try something different. The art style is really unique and still looks appealing to this day, and I still kinda like the idea of taking a boat and sailing off to faraway places... Even if that sea is pretty empty.

When the game was good, it was really good, and when it was bad, it was really bad. The Tower of the Gods is seriously one of the best Zelda dungeons they've ever created. Loved everything about that level.

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Old 01-18-2010, 02:38 AM   #66
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so long as we're ranking, I'm in.

1. Ocarina of Time
2. A Link to the Past
3. Majora's Mask
4. Wind Waker
5. Legend of Zelda

Twilight would be a close sixth, but whatev.

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Old 01-18-2010, 03:17 AM   #67
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Yeah I might've raised some eyebrows as well over my placement of Wind Waker seeing as I've never really talked about it much, but heres my two cents

The game itself to put it simply, is beautiful. I think the cel-shading allowed the creators to pull off alot of great stuff that would've looked odd on otherwise "realistic" GC graphics. But honestly I've never onced cared about graphics so I wasn't one of those fans that scoffed at the design. Gameplay-wise, I think it's just as fun as OOT but it's the smaller things that make the game better as a whole. The range of characters in WW came in a wider variety than they did in OOT. What I like about WW is that it gives a clear background for nearly every character you interact with, and how much the story affects them later on (coming back to Windfall after Forsaken Fortress and finding out the bratty rich girl now lives in poverty) As a whole they're all just more engrossing. I always felt a bigger motive to rescue the loving sister Aryll compared a princess who you only just met. It also has probably the best Zelda incarnate in the series in the form of Tetra (a spunky pirate, what's not to like?) The fact she actually assists you in the final battle is pretty cool in itself. The subtle references to OOT are incredible and the kind only a hard-core fan could pick up on. Ancient creatures still speak the ancient Hylian language, Kokiri children have evolved into the Korok creatures, Dragon Roost is supposedly the top of what used to be Death Mountain, and it took me awhile to figure out the theme for Forest Haven was a remix of Kokiri Forest. The GC's capabilities allowed for alot of improvements like more complex sidequests, the music (Dragon Roost Island is probably my favorite score from any game), and a 2nd quest, which is always extra fun. Another huge thing is that they seem to have given Link an actual personality. I know very few care about Link being anything other than a hero who gets the job done, but I found it kind of cool that they gave him all these facial expressions and reactions to certain scenes compared to OOT Link staring blankly a good 90% of the time (Which again may have been due to the restrictions of the N64 so I'm not hating.) Seeing scenes like him waving goodbye to everyone on the island, getting excited when the great fairy says "you're just my type", and him reaching out to King Daphnes during the final flooding of Hyrule(which is probably the saddest scene) really give the idea that this is a seemingly normal kid with a young mind who's been thrust into this great adventure. The game just seemed so brilliant

Was it AS revolutionary as OOT? No, and I doubt any Zelda game ever can or will be. Which is why I don't compare other Zelda games to that alone. I'd be telling myself it was impossible for any Zelda game to be better which would get very boring. Call me a bad fan or point out as many flaws from WW as you can, but it won't make me change my attitude towards this game. I really have gotten a few PMs asking if I honestly preferred WW to OOT. The answer is yes. Here's my proof

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Old 01-18-2010, 03:53 AM   #68
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I dig WW over OOT as well. Especially the WW incarnation of Zelda. She was just much more interesting than the usual 'save me!' Zeldas.

Didn't realize it's that controversial.

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Old 01-18-2010, 04:32 AM   #69
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WW would be the best Zelda ever if it weren't for trawling for fucking Triforce pieces.

Just padding out the game when it isn't necessary. And I LIKE going around to find them. And I STILL think it's a crummy gameplay device.

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Old 01-18-2010, 06:47 AM   #70
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I LOVED the graphics of Wind Waker. It was the first console Zelda I played and I assumed they were all like that. When I saw the games with the "realistic" graphics I didn't care for them. Kinda got used to Twilight Princess though.

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Old 01-18-2010, 12:59 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SubSane View Post
I dig WW over OOT as well. Especially the WW incarnation of Zelda. She was just much more interesting than the usual 'save me!' Zeldas.
Which is why it gets disappointing the moment the king transforms her into Zelda and he has were hanging around waiting to be kidnapped. Yes, stay in the abandoned castle Zelda. Nothing will happen to you there...

I think that also hints at why the Spirit Tracks Zelda doesn't really bother me. It's certainly her wimpiest writing, but it's also her most fun and regularly involved role in the seres and the game seems to have an awareness of how tacky some of the wimpy behavior comes off anyway.

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Old 01-18-2010, 02:19 PM   #72
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I didn't finding the charts or the pieces to be honest. It was having to find 398 rupees to decipher each one that really annoyed me

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Old 01-18-2010, 06:50 PM   #73
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some of the things about ocarina of time are just... insane now more than ever. the three minute day/night cycle, the 500 rupee limit. i've had to pass up a dozen secret treasure chests because they probably had big rupees that would be wasted, but could have had heart pieces. why do the games still have freakin rupee limits? in oblivion and fallout i love having redik amounts of cash i'll never be able to use

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Old 01-18-2010, 10:58 PM   #74
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For that exact reason. Instead of letting you get 9999999 Rupees they force you to conserve and be smart, instead of basically just handing you currency to play with.
And if you're at the point in the game where 500 rupees is a hidnerance, you're so fargone in the game money doesn't even matter because you've probably done everything else.

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Old 01-19-2010, 01:38 AM   #75
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Meeting Linebeck III in Spirit Tracks gave me a huge grin. Not only that, there's a bunch of cool memorabilia in his store. A tingle statue, a model of Tetra's Ship, and Aryll's telescope. Although it made me miss those games even more since it seems they're completely moving past the Great Sea era

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Old 01-19-2010, 02:18 AM   #76
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I love little nods to past/future Zelda games that they make.

In Twilight Princess's fishing pond, there's a black-and-white photo of the guy who ran Ocarina of Time's fishing pond. Maybe one of the most blatant references to another Zelda game in a Zelda game.

In The Adventure of Link, Spectacle Rock in Death Mountain is at the very bottom of the map; in the original, Spectacle Rock is at the very top of the map. Zelda 1 took place in Southern Hyrule, while Zelda 2 took place in Northern Hyrule. I've always thought that was really cool.

In Ocarina of Time, the names of the sages are Rauru, Saria, Darunia, Ruto, and Impa (and Zelda as well). All but Impa would have towns named after them in Zelda II, and Impa is the caretaker of Zelda in the same game. Presumably a descendant of the original Zelda from OoT, or possibly just named after her.

I love the theory of Dragon Roost Island being the top of Death Mountain. Man, I really need to play Wind Waker again now.

There's also a theory based on the fact that the Zelda in Zelda II is not the same Zelda whom Link rescued in the original; she's a different Zelda who has been asleep for generations. So...... maybe she's the Ocarina of Time Zelda? Or the Link to the Past Zelda? Or the Zelda from a not-yet-released Zelda? Who knows.

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Old 01-19-2010, 02:29 AM   #77
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adult zelda goes to sleep at the end of ocarina, right? i always thought that was a intended to be a direct history to zelda II

Quote:
For that exact reason. Instead of letting you get 9999999 Rupees they force you to conserve and be smart, instead of basically just handing you currency to play with.
all games (zelda, bethesda rpgs) provide monsterous amounts of money with few items worthy of purchase. if i'm going to have a broken money system, i'd rather keep the treasure i find.

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Old 01-19-2010, 02:36 AM   #78
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My only point was: there's simply not as much to DO in OoT as in even Fallout 1 and 2. Besides, it acts as a barrier to get around without literally having a barrier.

"Oh you want this? Too bad, it's 200 rupees and you only carry 99 right now. Go do something else"

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Old 01-19-2010, 02:40 AM   #79
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which is pretty weird in ocarina's case since the only items that cost that more than 99 rupees are just handed to you right before you need them

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Old 01-19-2010, 02:25 PM   #80
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Quote:
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I love little nods to past/future Zelda games that they make.

In Ocarina of Time, the names of the sages are Rauru, Saria, Darunia, Ruto, and Impa (and Zelda as well). All but Impa would have towns named after them in Zelda II, and Impa is the caretaker of Zelda in the same game. Presumably a descendant of the original Zelda from OoT, or possibly just named after her.

I love the theory of Dragon Roost Island being the top of Death Mountain. Man, I really need to play Wind Waker again now.

There's also a theory based on the fact that the Zelda in Zelda II is not the same Zelda whom Link rescued in the original; she's a different Zelda who has been asleep for generations. So...... maybe she's the Ocarina of Time Zelda? Or the Link to the Past Zelda? Or the Zelda from a not-yet-released Zelda? Who knows.
http://zelda.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline

I remember once putting the WW sea chart and the OoT Hyrule map over one another, and they do sort of fit: Death Mountain/Dragon Roost is in the north-east corner, Kokiri Forest/Forest Islands (?) are in the southeast, and Windfall Island is directly over Hyrule Market.

Also, people, no Spirit Tracks spoilers please. I'm still playing through the game. Use spoiler tags if you must. >_>

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Old 01-19-2010, 02:35 PM   #81
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off the top of my head the only times you need to use Rupees to buy something and there's no other option in order to finish the game are the Deku Shield and....... I can't think of another actually. I'm sure I'm forgetting something though. But you can find pretty much everything on your own.

Buy potions? No, just catch some fairies. And three of the four bottles are free.
Hylian Shield? there's a free one in a chest in the graveyard.
Bombs/Deku Seeds/Arrows/Bombchus? Please, who ever pays for those anyway.

Pretty much everything for sale in the game is optional, or acquirable elsewhere for free. The stores are for convenience only.

Which makes the 200 rupees you receive from the Skulltula father a really shitty reward for finding all 100 Gold Skulltulas. By that point in the game the only thing you'd possibly need to spend money on would be blue potions for Ganon's tower.

Having to buy the Flippers from King Zora in A Link to the Past was really, really silly I thought. 500 Rupees, by the way. Not cheap. They could have made a whole mini-dungeon in the falls for that, but no, they just had you buy them. Always hated that.

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Old 01-19-2010, 04:02 PM   #82
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I buy stuff at the shops.

Just throwing money at the problem I guess.

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Old 01-19-2010, 04:21 PM   #83
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DOHOHOHOHO



Also, Link to the Past King Zora is a dick, though. That was back when Zoras still hated you and weren't just a race of fish people.

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Old 01-19-2010, 05:15 PM   #84
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Which makes the 200 rupees you receive from the Skulltula father a really shitty reward for finding all 100 Gold Skulltulas. By that point in the game the only thing you'd possibly need to spend money on would be blue potions for Ganon's tower.
i thought he was supposed to keep giving you big rupees every time you came back though

but yeah i set 50 skulltulas as my goal. no way in hell i'm ever finishing that bullshit

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Old 01-19-2010, 06:24 PM   #85
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off the top of my head the only times you need to use Rupees to buy something and there's no other option in order to finish the game are the Deku Shield and....... I can't think of another actually. I'm sure I'm forgetting something though. But you can find pretty much everything on your own.
Don't you have to bet to win Epona back too? And that's only if you don't do the magic beans or side-quests, you could easily empty your wallet on some of those.

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Old 01-20-2010, 03:40 AM   #86
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Epona's optional

Yeah, Mr Skulltula does keep giving you rupees, I wasn't sure so I didn't say anything. Again, pretty useless at the end of the game.

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Old 01-20-2010, 05:19 PM   #87
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Also, in real life, there is no way one person can carry infinite rubies. That shit is going to get heavy and you aren't going to have a place to put it.

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Old 01-20-2010, 05:50 PM   #88
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That's one thing the Zelda games have gradually gotten better at over time, balancing the actual value of your rupees and the items you can purchase for them. Somewhat related but I also like the way the DS games are at least trying to balance the brokenness of the bottles and potions by reducing how many you can carry and increasing the costs for the best potions. Still far from perfect, but it's still quite a ways better than Ocarina of Time in this regard.

Also, might as well put a list here.

1. Majora's Mask (though it's strange always putting this as number one because most of what's good about it doesn't define the main series and most of its flaws revolve around franchise kitsch)

2. The Legend of Zelda (granted most future Zeldas have better designed dungeons and what not, but there really is not a better Zelda - nor many other games for that matter - that foster a better sense of exploration and discovery)

3. Ocarina of Time
4. Link to the Past (they're virtually equal, but I tend to find Ocarina a little better paced and its combat and dungeon design more immediately impressive and distinct than LTTP)

5. Link's Awakening (very tightly designed game with some impressive late game dungeons that outshines its Oracle heirs)

And the rest:

6. Twilight Princess
7. Wind Waker
8. Spirit Tracks
9. Zelda II
10. Oracle of Ages
11. Phantom Hourglass
12. Minish Cap
13. Oracle of Seasons
14. Four Swords (GBA)

Haven't played Four Swords for Gamecube. Anything else I don't really feel comfortable including.

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Old 01-20-2010, 06:12 PM   #89
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Also, in real life, there is no way one person can carry infinite rubies. That shit is going to get heavy and you aren't going to have a place to put it.
Sometimes I wonder how these people in games like Zelda, Fallout, Oblivion, etc. can carry just so much shit. In Fallout 3, theoretically, you could carry twelve guns, ten different kinds of armor, fifty empty cola bottles, hundreds of mines and grenades, hundreds of medicines and drugs, thousands of bottle caps (currency), a fucking sledgehammer, garden gnomes, clipboards, lunchboxes.... and still run around the world like nothing's wrong. Link travels pretty damn light in comparison.

I always imagined Link's wallet to be magically small despite how full of Rupees it can get (for Chrissakes, in Wind Waker he can carry 5000 of them). As for him carrying sword, shield, bombs, different outfits and shit... well, it's a video game.

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Old 01-20-2010, 07:48 PM   #90
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Someone tell me there is a lot more to Spirit Tracks after you restore the tracks to the 4 areas? I'm already halfway through the 3rd one and I feel like I've hardly played the game.

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