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Old 11-15-2012, 10:12 PM   #61
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scott's on his way right now to hunt down the person who voted for beltre over trout on his ballot

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Old 11-15-2012, 10:14 PM   #62
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i already said something to lance about that. voting for cabrera over trout is some kind of global warming-denial level bullshit as is...but slotting beltre above trout is just flat-out dipshit moron bias at its worse. if beltre was taking a vote above either of the two, it certainly was cabrera.

and rooting for that despicable piece of twat garbage to win makes you a bad person. because he is a bad person. so fuck you, too, pat.

 

Old 11-15-2012, 10:18 PM   #63
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DINGERS AND RIBBIES

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Old 11-15-2012, 11:53 PM   #64
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at least adrian beltre isn't (known to be) a wife beater and alcoholic.

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Old 11-16-2012, 12:39 AM   #65
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Quote:
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No surprises there.
yup. both trout & cabrera had amazing seasons.

but unless winning the batters' triple crown becomes commonplace & dull, the player who achieves it will win MVP each and every time. it's just how it is, and that opinion of others is not changing anytime soon.

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Old 11-16-2012, 01:07 AM   #66
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not only does the triple crown winner not necessarily always win the MVP award historically, but that type of thinking (sabermetric) absolutely is recently taking over the game.

so...uh...what?

 

Old 11-16-2012, 01:47 AM   #67
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yahoo's number one search right now is "mike trout robbed"

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Old 11-16-2012, 01:53 AM   #68
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at least they get it

i really don't think people quite understand the actual history they witnessed with trout this year. it's going to go down as one of the best seasons ever played in the sport. it's willie mays in his prime type shit. and it lost to a "great" season that had the luxury of being a fucking novelty act at the same time.

it's really just fucking sad/pathetic how little context people have.

 

Old 11-16-2012, 08:06 AM   #69
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how do they keep fucking up the mvp so badly?

last year they gave it to a fucking pitcher and shafted the obvious winner in the nl (kemp)

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Old 11-16-2012, 10:04 AM   #70
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it's the mvp. it's voted on by dinosaur sports writers who are closed-minded to new ways of thinking. i have a hard time getting worked up over it.

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Old 11-16-2012, 10:52 AM   #71
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Quote:
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not only does the triple crown winner not necessarily always win the MVP award historically, but that type of thinking (sabermetric) absolutely is recently taking over the game.

so...uh...what?
well now we're going back to before the 1970s and i can't really comment on MVP criteria used before that time.

and actually, in many cases a triple crown winner would have the best WAR in the league. cabrera just happened to be a below average player in other aspects of his game.

if it's taking over the game, why didn't trout win? like i said many pages ago, standardize the statistic with one agreed-upon formula already. then things may change.

bullshit if you thought trout was gonna beat out the first triple crown winner since 1967. you know how the writers think.

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Old 11-16-2012, 12:08 PM   #72
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uh...didn't i say like a million fucking times that trout was going to lose the award? no, i didn't "think" he would.

and i didn't say it had taken over the game, just that it is taking over...incrementally. no one even knew what the fuck OPS/OPS+ was like 5-10 years ago, now it's one of the most oft-cited stats in the game. and it's not like trout's entire argument lay in the hands of some stat the retards can't understand. he went neck-and-neck with the fat fuck in all the dinosaur categories, too. his batting average, OBP, OPS, OPS+, runs scored, and all that fun stuff went toe-to-toe with the wife-beater. and then to top it off, he utterly fucking teabagged him in stolen bases, and beat him soundly in whatever nonsensical "sight test" they use to determine defensive ability (nevermind beating him in any defense stat you want to use). it really wasn't that amazing a season for cabrera in the slightest. it's not to say he wasn't great, because he was. besides just marginally winning in each of three of the dinosaur categories, his game didn't offer anything particularly historical...just a novelty for old douchebags.

for a little perspective on that matter, cabrera's WAR this year doesn't even come within 1.3 wins of being in the top 500 seasons of all time. judging by how slowly that list ticks down, that'd probably put it somewhere near the 900th or 1000th best season ever? trout's finishes tied for 79th...with some guys named ted williams and willie mays and tom seaver. again, i don't think people quite realize, historically, what kind of a hosing trout just took. the "oh come on now, there's an argument to be made for both of them!" friendly circle-jerk narrative people have been trying to push for months is retarded beyond words.

but, again, since you missed this point eric, i never said trout would win. to the contrary, i repeatedly said he would not.

 

Old 11-16-2012, 12:09 PM   #73
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oh, and just for your reference, of the last ten triple crown winners (before this year), six of them won the MVP. so, really, it wasn't even close to a guarantee of winning.

 

Old 11-16-2012, 01:26 PM   #74
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Quote:
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and it lost to a "great" season that had the luxury of being a fucking novelty act at the same time.
it's still laughable that you can't admit that miguel cabrera had a great season. what was he in your biased opinion, "above average"? both trout and cabrera had mvp-type seasons, with cano right on their heels. what a year, considering that many seasons go by in which there aren't any clear-cut mvp candidates.

writers and fans simply do not regard great defense & speed as highly as great offensive production, and i do not see that changing within at least the next decade. for example, even the horrible gold glove awards are seemingly given to solid offensive players at the respective positions, rather than rewarding the best overall defensive performances.

and there's also the fact the BBWAA prefers voting for players on playoff teams. but please do not go into the argument of the weaker AL Central and geographical-based shit, because we've heard it all before.


regardless i'm enjoying all the saberhagenmetrics talk in the media today.

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Old 11-16-2012, 01:27 PM   #75
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"I was a little concerned. I thought the new thing about computer stuff, I thought Trout's going to win because they put his numbers over me," Cabrera said.

haha good quote

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Old 11-16-2012, 01:31 PM   #76
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it's still laughable that you can't admit that miguel cabrera had a great season.
uh, i just said he had a great season, fool. the quotation marks were for emphasis, not belittlement. nevermind in my most recent post:
Quote:
it's not to say he wasn't great, because he was.
he had a great season. but other than his win in the "novelty categories," it wasn't some all-time, holy-shit-look-at-that historical season. the sport's fixation on those three categories aside, it just doesn't measure up.

and cano had a better season than cabrera. which says a lot, because seriously...fuck the yankees.
Quote:
writers and fans simply do not regard great defense & speed as highly as great offensive production, and i do not see that changing within at least the next decade. for example, even the horrible gold glove awards are seemingly given to solid offensive players at the respective positions, rather than rewarding the best overall defensive performances.
and, again...i didn't ever say they do value those over offensive production (though, also again, trout did go toe-to-toe with cabrera in the traditional bullshit categories, too). i merely said the dynamic has been shifting this way. the fact that we're even having a debate at all is our evidence of that.

 

Old 11-16-2012, 01:37 PM   #77
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WAR! what is it good for? absolutely nothing. uh-huh

uh heh, sorry.


stats will be analyzed much differently a decade or so from now. have some patience

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Old 11-16-2012, 01:39 PM   #78
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easy to say when your favorite team's best player isn't the one being cheated out of recognition for one of the greatest single season performances in the history of the sport so that a wife-beating alcoholic can take it instead.

 

Old 11-16-2012, 01:41 PM   #79
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any truth to what i've heard about cabrera performing better overall this past year in later inning-clutch situations compared to trout, or is that horseshit?

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Old 11-16-2012, 01:44 PM   #80
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he was better, yes. not that trout wasn't good, cabrera just was better.

which is stupid, anyway. does a run in the first inning not matter as much?

and aside from that, when the angels and tigers were jockeying for position in the last couple weeks of the season, trout had an OPS more than 200 points higher than cabrera did...i guess if you wanna cherry-pick data from random windows of opportunity, we can find a way to make vernon wells MVP, too?

 

Old 11-16-2012, 06:39 PM   #81
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Quote:
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easy to say when your favorite team's best player isn't the one being cheated out of recognition for one of the greatest single season performances in the history of the sport so that a wife-beating alcoholic can take it instead.
i understand you think he's a bad person, and beating his wife would certainly make him one, but why is him being an alcoholic relevant at all? you mention that constantly about him as if alcoholism inherently makes someone a bad person

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Old 11-16-2012, 07:48 PM   #82
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wish i had more than one thumb up to give that post.

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Old 11-16-2012, 08:08 PM   #83
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because unlike josh hamilton's alcoholism which has generally led to him having the audacity to fuck hot girls and enjoy drugs of his choosing, miguel let his go unchecked when it was leading to things like being out until 6am the night before huge games when his team counts on him, driving while 3 times over the limit, smacking his wife, and threatening restaurant patrons with murder. you know, things that make someone a shitbag. the alcoholism isn't the problem...that he let it go unchecked when it led to him being a fucking would-be felon is. and there's an inherent selfishness to his that makes it problematic.

and when you're a multi-millionaire with all the resources and staff around you to help you through your problems...things most any one else doesn't easily have at their disposal...and you do nothing (nevermind facing relatively no scrutiny or punishment for your actions) to help yourself for prolonged periods of time, at what point do you just become a selfish fucking prick?


Last edited by scott; 11-16-2012 at 08:21 PM.
 

Old 11-16-2012, 10:00 PM   #84
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well then he's a selfish violent prick. but alcohol didn't make him that way

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Old 11-16-2012, 11:11 PM   #85
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he's a selfish violent prick and i'll mock him for whatever the fuck aspect of his life i want to...especially if he refuses help. it's a disease, but it ain't cancer, and he can't fall back on it like a fucking crutch beyond reproach either (not that he necessarily has).

 

Old 11-17-2012, 09:14 AM   #86
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if he's still such a shitbag, then why did the tigers nominate him for the roberto clemente award? obviously i don't know the guy, but it seems like he's making a huge effort to put his selfish days behind him.

personally speaking, if people take measures to clean themselves up & become a decent human being, then i forgive them for stupid shit they've done in the past as long as they haven't actually intentionally killed anyone, raped women, or done similar horrendous crap. uh, military personnel excluded of course in regards to the killing part.

and i guarantee you that probably around 50% of everyone on this board - and your friends, and my friends - have probably driven at least once when their blood alcohol level was over the legal limit, whether they were caught doing so or not. of course, many wouldn't even admit doing so. we regret these stupid incidents, learn from our mistakes, and move on with our lives.

in regards to playing the game of baseball, if you can keep your drinking somewhat in check, alcohol apparently doesn't have much of an impact on your game. ask anyone who saw babe ruth play, party all night, and play the next day.

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Old 11-17-2012, 11:11 AM   #87
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dock ellis threw a no hitter on acid really makes u think

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Old 11-17-2012, 01:13 PM   #88
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if he's still such a shitbag, then why did the tigers nominate him for the roberto clemente award? obviously i don't know the guy, but it seems like he's making a huge effort to put his selfish days behind him.
because there's zero accountability for who gets nominated, and the crux of his nomination was "he has a charity." cool. so do lots of shitty people, i'm sure. he has a nine figure contract. it doesn't make him jesus christ reborn to give some of it away and give him carte blanche for the rest of his personal life. it's not exactly all distant-past stuff.
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personally speaking, if people take measures to clean themselves up & become a decent human being, then i forgive them for stupid shit they've done in the past as long as they haven't actually intentionally killed anyone, raped women
cool. and i don't have to give a shit enough to forgive him. i find it to be a generally wasteful practice. though choosing 'rape' as an arbitrary unforgivable act, while ignoring beating them is silly. you can brush of everything he did as "stupid shit," but generally, those people are referred to as thugs and villains. and if some lifelong inner-city punk was pulling this kind of shit, i somehow doubt most people's reaction would be anything but "we need to get that guy off the streets/behind bars." and no, he never intentionally killed anyone. just threatened to at least once, and then committed a DUI, which instead is basically an intentional "i don't give a fuck if i kill someone."
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and i guarantee you that probably around 50% of everyone on this board - and your friends, and my friends - have probably driven at least once when their blood alcohol level was over the legal limit
good...fuck those people...even if your "around 50%" is totally canseco-esque. they should be serving jail time for their "stupid incident." you're lucky our country is dumb enough to consider it basically just a "stupid incident," and not the felony it most certainly should be. maybe if it was, you dumbasses would stop doing it.
Quote:
in regards to playing the game of baseball, if you can keep your drinking somewhat in check, alcohol apparently doesn't have much of an impact on your game. ask anyone who saw babe ruth play, party all night, and play the next day.
anecdotal evidence aside, he blew a 0.26 the night in question, at about 6am...so if you're going to tell me that has no impact on someone's game, you might as well tell me DUIs shouldn't exist, either.

 

Old 11-17-2012, 10:27 PM   #89
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we'll continue this argument one day when we're buying each other beers at a ballgame.


i googled the "have you ever driven drunk?" question before giving my canseco-esque answer. typically around 40% answering yes.. sometimes a bit higher. and since there are many liars out there, likely 50%ish.

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Old 11-18-2012, 01:35 AM   #90
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Just gonna leave this here.

http://deadspin.com/5961244/mitch-al...-dumbfuck-stew

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