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Old 01-10-2013, 05:59 PM   #601
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again, the point is you're giving benefit of the doubt to a guy who has never had a finger on a TV show before...because he made a comic you liked.

this as opposed to an academy award nominated filmmmaker who has had his hands on no less than half a dozen films considered good or great, and another EP who has overseen the general revival of this show and had his hands on several other successful TV shows in the past (but i guess had a bad interview?) say what you want about mazzara, but if anyone deserved a lot of benefit of the doubt in this scenario, in this medium, it's darabont, not kirkman. a guy whose primary interest would seem to be to protect the integrity of his source material doesn't sound like he has the strongest case for being a TV idea-man.

in case you haven't gathered, your fanboy defensiveness isn't my favoritest thing ever. because of this.

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Old 01-10-2013, 08:57 PM   #602
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to me personally, creator of the actual work and the originator of all the characters/story holds more esteem to me than "good at running tv shows"

and the interview with mazarra wasn't a "bad interview", he was just dumb and douchebaggy in it, it made me have no respect for his television running skills

and i'm not sure why you're underestimating this comic i "like"...it's not just any comic, it's the comic the entire thing is based on, and it's one of the finest long running series i have ever read. it's not an insignificant factor in this whole thing at all.

also i'm not even close to a "walking dead" fanboy, i just admire kirkman's work a lot and therefore trust his sensibilities. this isn't buffy we're talking about though.

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Old 01-10-2013, 09:01 PM   #603
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to me personally, creator of the actual work and the originator of all the characters/story holds more esteem to me than "good at running tv shows"
WELL THIS IS DUMB SO STOP THINKING IT

BOTH OF YOU SHUT UP OR I WILL BAN YOU FROM THIS THREAD

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Old 01-10-2013, 09:01 PM   #604
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to me personally, creator of the actual work and the originator of all the characters/story holds more esteem to me than "good at running tv shows"
you could not address (or completely miss) my point just as easily by not replying next time. feel free to try that angle, too.

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Old 01-10-2013, 09:02 PM   #605
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your point was my benefit of the doubt in him is misguided because he has never run a tv show before, unlike mazarra

my response was you seem to hold more value to that skill than i do, whereas i hold more value to the creativity and artistic sensibility of the creator of the whole thing, at least in this scenario

what point did i miss

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Old 01-10-2013, 09:07 PM   #606
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YOU EACH HAVE TWO POSTS TO MAKE ABOUT THIS. GO PAST THAT AND I WILL THREADBAN YOU UNTIL THE SHOW COMES BACK

LET'S HEAR YOUR CLOSING ARGUMENTS

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Old 01-10-2013, 09:12 PM   #607
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zip zop zoobity bop

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Old 01-10-2013, 09:12 PM   #608
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my response was you seem to hold more value to that skill than i do, whereas i hold more value to the creativity and artistic sensibility of the creator of the whole thing, at least in this scenario
no, it's that you side with one ("benefit of the doubt") on total gut-instinct because he's "your boy," rather than because you have any nuanced understanding of how television development/demographic marketing/creativity sustainability is uniquely different from being able to create a successful comic book. this isn't just "welp, it's my opinion that that stuff's not important." it's "welp, this narrative better fits my preconceived notions, so i'll downplay the significance of one side's expertise without really knowing how it works one way or the other." what percentage of major motion pictures/TV shows sourced from comic books would you presume are EP'd by the comic's creator/primary writer to the degree that they're capable of 'axing' anyone who doesn't share their vision? and why do you suppose there are so few?

it's not that i value "one over the other," it's that you pretend to understand the value of both, and then place your "benefit of the doubt" conveniently along the lines of whichever guy you liked more to start with.

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Old 01-10-2013, 09:14 PM   #609
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BILLY View Post
YOU EACH HAVE TWO POSTS TO MAKE ABOUT THIS. GO PAST THAT AND I WILL THREADBAN YOU UNTIL THE SHOW COMES BACK

LET'S HEAR YOUR CLOSING ARGUMENTS
is there really a point to this in a thread that's already dead between airings? don't like it, don't read it. jesus christ, dude. there's no discussion to derail, so there's no 'handicap' to anyone who doesn't want to click on the thread. you don't even have to scroll past anything to get back to the discussion, because there wasn't one.

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Old 01-10-2013, 09:17 PM   #610
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some interesting points there, scott

I'm curious to see how Jordan will use his two moves most effectively

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Old 01-10-2013, 09:19 PM   #611
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IT WAS BORING/IRRITATING ME BECAUSE YOUR ARGUMENT WASN'T GOING ANYWHERE AND I WANT TO THREADBAN SOMEONE CUZ I'VE NEVER DONE IT BEFORE

FOR WHAT IT'S WORTH I AGREE WITH YOU

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Old 01-10-2013, 09:40 PM   #612
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jordan you seem to get some weird personal attachment to people who make things you like and then get uber defensive when anyone talks bad about them. it's probably not healthy

anyway, between the lawsuit and the firing of two EPs in 3 seasons i think it's safe to say that kirkman is probably an asshole and a control freak. doesn't mean he doesn't write a good comic (he does). and anyway, if he has the power to fire people when he feels like it, wouldn't he also have some input on their hiring? because in that case it's partially his fault either way

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Old 01-11-2013, 10:42 AM   #613
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? i don't care if someone talks bad about kirkman. i don't give a shit and haven't acted like i gave a shit.

there is not one person you can think of who's earned your benefit of the doubt? no writer, actor, director, songwriter, artist, etc? like, this is a totally alien thing that i alone experience in the pop culture world?

ok. i thought i was making sense. i understand what scott is saying, i don't disagree with him. and i said several times i have NO idea what's going on and kirkman may very well be horrible at his own tv show. all im trying to say is when it comes to creative decisions about these characters, it would make sense to me that kirkman would know which way to steer the ship, so to speak. but that may not be true.

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Old 02-09-2013, 10:20 AM   #614
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returns tomorrow.

I just now saw this.


I passed on the zombie head release for season 2 because it was absurd, but this looks so damn cool. yes you can add water to it. I do like the simplicity of the basic cover art for each season.

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Old 02-09-2013, 01:59 PM   #615
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what is that, the season 3 box? why is that out already when the season is only half over?

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Old 02-09-2013, 05:28 PM   #616
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Oh sorry.

This was leaked to show what the special edition set will look like. It will not be out until season 3 is in the books.

I just think it is an awesome idea and was not sure if anyone else saw the pics for it yet. Curious as to the dimensions of the case.

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Old 02-11-2013, 01:33 AM   #617
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Despite all my rage, I'm still just a rat in a cage.

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Old 02-11-2013, 02:59 PM   #618
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so, i didn't think much of this new episode at all. the mearle/daryll death ring match that was the entire cliffhanger going into the break was immediately solved without actually coming to a head. and andrea is like fully retarded now. why the fuck would she still trust the governor and say shit like "don't shut me out" like he's her fucking boyfriend?!? i reeaaaaally hope she just dies soon. the character is no longer redeemable. and michonne continues to pretend she can't talk. why would she just stand there while mearle talked shit about her? or, you know, when rick is actually asking her direct questions? SAY SOMETHING YOU DUMB FUCK

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Old 02-11-2013, 03:50 PM   #619
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Pretty much agree with everything @box elder said above.

I really want to like Michonne, I mean she has a fucking samari sword! But there's a difference between brooding silence and just being so silent you actually come off as mentally deficient.

Andrea needs to go... so badly. She's been pretty unbearable since the CDC... they almost turned her character around on the farm, making her a bit more badass and a good shot... but now she's just full on intolerable.

You've got walker heads in here? You've kept your walker-daughter in a cage? You kidnapped my friends? You're going to pit Daryll & Mearle in a fight to the death? Oh... but do you think I'm pretty? You do!? Ok, let's fuck!

Also, I get that Mearle is a dick... but assuming the Governor really was about to kill him, and he's really been banished from the town... you'd think he would at least play it a little cooler trying to integrate with Ricks crew.

It all could be one giant setup, but it's pretty complex if it is. It could all be a trap that the Governor set them to fight telling Mearle that he & Daryll should "escape" the fight (or that a rescue attempt would be made). That Mearle should separate Daryll from Rick, convince Daryll to join the Governor and help them infiltrate the prison.

If that is the case... then it's a pretty big logical gap that Daryll could think that the Governor is trustworthy.

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youtube harp twins
I'm confused at how I'm supposed to feel about this.
Cute blond twins? Score!
Kooky electric instrument choice? Score!
Song Choice: Score!

It works on paper... but there's just apparently no way to look cool playing harp.
And what the hell do they keep looking right (our right, their left) for?! It's like they're actually looking around for walkers.

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Old 02-11-2013, 04:29 PM   #620
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why the fuck do they just let rick decide everything for the group? dude has been unstable as fuck pretty much forever, and is clearly delusional at the end. someone should just pistol whip him and lock him up for a bit.

and when he's rambling about "we're a tight knit group" and "we can't bring in new people" or whatever the fuck (oh hi, random white dude prisoner who wasn't with the group a week ago!), why doesn't hershel step in and say "OH GEE ISN'T THAT RICH COMING FROM THE DESPERATE RETARD AND HIS PACK OF FRIENDS WHO I HAD TO LET ONTO MY FARM ONLY A COUPLE MONTHS AGO AFTER THEY BEGGED ME NOT TO SEND THEM BACK OUT TO DIE!?"

goddammit.

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Old 02-11-2013, 04:53 PM   #621
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yeah rick's motivations make no sense to me either, but you're right that it makes even less sense that they're all just deferring to him still

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Old 02-11-2013, 05:22 PM   #622
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I get that people are often a bigger threat than walkers in their world, but the xenophobia has to be balanced with the fact that there's a pretty high attrition rate in their little social club.

As for his deteriorating mental state, the characters in the show are probably not supposed to be as aware of it as we, the viewer, are. Hershel probably sees the most of it (odd that Hershel never asks who was on the phone...) but in the context of the other characters, it could be shrugged off as grief over losing his wife & general stress of their situation.

In last night's episode though, he pretty much completely unravels and it will need to be addressed.

I think they biggest reason they're following him right now, is no one else is capable or wants to be "the leader". Hershel is the only one close to being a candidate, but most his authority last season came from it being his farm. Out of his comfort zone, he seems more comfortable to follow than lead.

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Old 02-11-2013, 06:01 PM   #623
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more to my point, though...why exactly do they need a leader? they're a group of like 5-10 people, basically. who the fuck needs a leader? rick says the newcomers have to go, and they all beg him to reconsider? wtf? then fuck what rick says, just tell him to shut up and then tell those people they're allowed to say.

---

i actually don't get that the other survivors are a bigger threat than walkers. the only reason i even acknowledge it at all is because every fictional work on the subject always "decides" that's going to be their narrative. i never really buy this dynamic in post-apocalyptic worlds of small clans of people being so shut off to newcomers. like, when exactly was the arbitrary "deadline" by which you would no longer allow other people into your clan? who is "family" and who is a "troubling outsider?" how did this new white trash prisoner dude somehow make the cut, but these new folks don't? they've allowed people into their group on multiple occasions since the show started (or, in the case of the farm, allowed into someone's group). sure, it's more mouths to feed, but it's also more helping hands, more guns, and more stability. for every gung-ho survivalist out there making it on their own (michonne), there are more "woodbury" type places that offer prolonged protection (when not run by sociopaths) and rebuilding efforts. without cohesion, you're just hoping to survive until things maybe get better. coming together is the only reasonable way to hope to rebuild. which is why i can't buy this bullshit.

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Old 02-11-2013, 06:18 PM   #624
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Yeah, the logic of who they let in and who they dismiss makes no sense. It's not even based on resources at this point. They're basically in a secure spot, seem to have plenty of food or the ability to scavenge for more (or even grow crops within the fences)...

I get that there is trust issues. Walkers don't trick you... they don't deceive you. They just want to eat your face. Dealing with them long enough you probably forget the intricacies of human interaction... but in their situation you'd have to realize that without expansion you're just going to dwindle to nothing.

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Old 02-11-2013, 07:27 PM   #625
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i agree with everything you guys are saying. continue.

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Old 02-11-2013, 10:25 PM   #626
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why do they need a leader? seriously? that's a purposefully ignorant question if I've ever seen one. granted, Rick is becoming so delusional that it is effecting his leadership and people need to start questioning him and his leadership (which sorta was introduced here and I hope they follow that direction further) but why do they need a leader? c'mon.

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Old 02-11-2013, 10:30 PM   #627
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in a group of six or seven fucking people or whatever they are, no they do not need a goddamn leader who they have to beg to reconsider verdicts as though his decision is the word of god. this isn't a goddamn nation of 300 million people who need representation (or even a group the size of woodbury). if they want cohesion it should take all of about five seconds to run a poll for fuck's sake. even if rick was totally sane, why the hell do they need him around to be chasing off newcomers with a gun, with no one "fit" to intervene or offer a counterpoint?

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Old 02-11-2013, 10:36 PM   #628
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well, of course they don't need a dictator. which I know is what Rick declared himself as at the end of season two (though it was a perfectly understandable plot-driven point to arrive at for both him and the group at the time) but to ignore the necessity and natural desire of leadership in a situation like this is just being purposefully ignorant, as I said before.

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Old 02-11-2013, 10:50 PM   #629
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purposefully ignorant? what the fuck benefit to rick being a de facto dictator (or even stronger voice, really) than to having all six dudes say what they think?

other than the fact that the show has seemingly gone out of its way to paint all the other remaining survivors in his group as a bunch of fickle, weak-willed, pussy-footing dipshits for the most part, there's nothing that makes him more valid as a leader, or even shows the situation to generally necessitate one. i see no benefit whatsoever to rick being their leader than if all of them just chimed in on every decision with equal weight.

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Old 02-12-2013, 01:28 PM   #630
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i think it depends entirely on the situation. i'd say you definitely want someone as a de facto "leader" in situations where quick decisions need to be made and everyone looking at each other cluelessly or arguing might get people killed. but in situations where deliberation is possible, obviously that's the way to go. i don't think it's totally unrealistic though that maybe a group like this after all this time would start to just defer to that person in all things

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